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Halo Origins: Prologue
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hboff
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:33 pm    Post subject: Halo Origins: Prologue Reply with quote

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Halo Origins: Prologue
Posted by Enthrone Darkness Triumphant (admiralprestoncole@yahoo.com)
28 July 2009, 7:27 am

http://halosn.bungie.org/fanfic/?story=Enthrone_Dar0728090727301.html
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eb4642
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well... it's quite good. Your GPS is, as always, very good, and the narrative is simple to follow and very informative.

Now for the problem: the plot seems rather flawed. I highly doubt the Soviet Union, in anything remotely resembling its pre-1989 days, could appear again. While modern Russia is suspended precariously between communism and a pseudo-free market, history tells us that the Soviet Union simply didn't work. True, Lenin was born around a hundred years too early (if he'd had microchips, his job might have been simpler) but even with future technology, in my opinion, there's still only a certain extent to which a relatively authoritarian society can be enforced.

Just my two cents' worth.
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Enth Darkness Triumphant
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eb4642 wrote:


Now for the problem: the plot seems rather flawed. I highly doubt the Soviet Union, in anything remotely resembling its pre-1989 days, could appear again. While modern Russia is suspended precariously between communism and a pseudo-free market, history tells us that the Soviet Union simply didn't work. True, Lenin was born around a hundred years too early (if he'd had microchips, his job might have been simpler) but even with future technology, in my opinion, there's still only a certain extent to which a relatively authoritarian society can be enforced.

Just my two cents' worth.


I see what you mean and I had anticipated such problems for the story and my philosophical mind drabbles. The thing is that the USSR in my story isn't the one like the one in the Cold War era. It will run on a different society and I will use this new society to create the first insurrections in the Jovian moons and Mars, plus tell how the UN was formed.
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kabu
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure how much I like this sort of alternate universe thing. Honestly, it has nothing to do with halo at all, aside from the title. The timeline has all the events nicely laid out.
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Arthur Wellesley
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was... alright. I certainly don't mind artistic liberties, Ethrone... I too tried to make my own version of Earth's unexplored pre-Covenant history. Yet I feel that taking liberties necessitates their being justified within the greater context of both the real world and the Haloverse. I didn't find that here.

The Soviet Union reforming, complete with identicle government structures (the KGB, the Supreme Soviet)? The "American Empire" annexing Canada? China unanimously deciding to launch nukes against a country that can respond in kind? None of it struck me as remotely realistic.

The early history of the UNSC is something that I think desperately needs more Fan Fiction attention, but this doesn't seem to cut it. I'm sorry, but I just didn't believe it. I never even came close.

The language you employ is also occassionally sloppy or just plain unusual:

Quote:
"Everyone should have seen it coming," Sergei chuckled to himself as he reminisced about the reformation. "It wasn't like it was all hush, hush; I mean a nuclear war nearly happened."


This is just a random thought that popped into our hero's head? Your exposition needs to be a little more delicate.

Quote:
they all waited for her arrival to execute the briefing.


This is one example I quickly found of a consistently unusual word choice.

Quote:
The explosion verified a five megaton device; thereby majority of the two million residents will be dead."


There were a number of missing words as well.

I don't mean to be overly harsh, but I would strongly advise you to go back to the drawing board with your whole concept. Additionally, your writing needs more polish... from the clunky exposition to the cliched, piecemeal introduction of the team of heroes, your style lacks readability.

Keep trying. You'll get better with practice.

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Enth Darkness Triumphant
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously Arthur,

If you find this without enough context to the real world you can look away from the computer screen and stare out of a window into the real world because I hate to ruin it but this make belief. I am kind of getting peeved by people telling me on how I should run my bloody stories, when all I am doing is throwing my imagination into words.

Sure GPS can always be improved through time and practice but I am standing firm on my plot. This is just a prologue and I got a whole series to show were I am going with it. I created a crossover before and I was put down with the lack of originality that came with it, so I decided to go with something new and orginal.

But whatever, if you don't like the idea then you can choose not to read it. I will take your GPS comments and improve on them.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey now. Arthur gave advice that you don't like, sure, but he did so without malice and only as suggestions for improvement. He, and pretty much everyone else on this site, is just trying to help you improve, not to attack you personally.

Originality is always great, and I applaud you for thinking of something this innovative. But to be honest, I don't see the USSR coming back like this either - and I certainly don't foresee a conflict like that between America and Canada.
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Enth Darkness Triumphant
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kabu wrote:
Hey now. Arthur gave advice that you don't like, sure, but he did so without malice and only as suggestions for improvement. He, and pretty much everyone else on this site, is just trying to help you improve, not to attack you personally.


I don't mind advice that does not dissect my work in the prologue without giving even the first chapter a chance.

Quote:
Originality is always great, and I applaud you for thinking of something this innovative. But to be honest, I don't see the USSR coming back like this either - and I certainly don't foresee a conflict like that between America and Canada.


Conflict is always in human blood, and I didn't set the story in the present day and time but another hundred and fifty something years into the future. If anyone thinks that a nation with the thirst for energy, etc like America is going to sit while its supplies dwindle and a nation not even half its population size up north has a large portion of the global resources.

I am from the west coast of Canada and lately all I have been reading in our newspapers is our Arctic sovereignty at stake to the USA, Russia and Denmark and how our prime minister is trying to hold onto it, while America says it wants the North West Passage to be international waters. I sense conflict there, but it can escalate over time. It only takes a hot headed, blood thirsty, iron fisted leader to destroy peace.

As for the USSR, well anything can happen and I did not elaborate to detail on its reformation because this is not a Tom Clancy, Steven Coonts war novel, but rather an idea on how the United Earth government forms since nothing has been written about it.

Sorry about me unleashing the Demons on you Arthur, I should have waited to comment, but I still have to stand firm with my plot.
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SYSTEM
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enth Darkness Triumphant wrote:

But whatever, if you don't like the idea then you can choose not to read it. I will take your GPS comments and improve on them.

Welcome to the internet. People here read what they like and they say what they like. If you do not want the feedback, then keep your stories to your computer. This isn't an open market where you (and your publisher) call the shots and your audience responds with their money, this is a public forum, and this is what the comment board is for. Arthur made several points and he backed them up.

Quote:
If you find this without enough context to the real world you can look away from the computer screen and stare out of a window into the real world because I hate to ruin it but this make belief.

Just because it is fiction does not mean it's your sandbox. Realism is not "oh I'll make this constrained to what would really happen" it's a matter of constructing things in such a way that we overlook the areas where you have gone outside of reality and suspend disbelief. If you are not able to construct things in such a way, even if you set this in a modern day scenario, it is still unrealistic.

Welcome your critique and start learning from it. You told me a while back you need the commentary to improve when I temporarily locked your thread. Here it is, and now you're ignoring it or trying to brush it off?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enth Darkness Triumphant wrote:
I created a crossover before and I was put down with the lack of originality that came with it, so I decided to go with something new and orginal.


Halo Origins: Prologue wrote:
Indeed the world was taken by surprise about the Soviet Union resurfacing nearly a century and a half after its collapse.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading back through this, I've noticed quite another, more major problem. I initially thought that it was because I was distracted... but I was wrong.

The biggest problem with this submission is that it's bland. It's got this dull, uninteresting feel. It physically pains me to say this (because anyone who uses the word "engage" in this way sounds like a complete tosser), but it just fails to engage with the reader.

Overall, it feels more like a four-hour history lecture by a fusty old professor called Keith than a piece of fiction that's meant to be entertaining.

I also concur with what Dave said: if you don't like what people have to say... don't post it.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al ot of times I have stuff to say but I bite my tongue and I move on and if I read something that has anomalies, I at least try to employ the "crap sandwich."

Now to defend my stance yet again, I list the following:

1) Nothing has ever been written about the governments on Earth before the formation of the UN and still nothing is ever written on the autonomy of the nations that comprise the UN in Halo.

2)Apart from the timeline, which I intend to follow; nothing has ever been written or said about the old Earth politics and what happened until the events of the origins of Harvest and the beginnings of Earths Extra-Sol System travels.

3) I can take critique up to but not including someone just flat out telling me at the prologue that my idea is flawed and that it should be torn apart and rebuilt because they disagree with how politics are run in a story.

4) The four hour history lesson was needed because apparently the comments from my first series was that not enough background was given. I could have gone more in depth but that would have probably pissed more people off and forked off into a completely different direction than I intended. I tried to employ a direct and to the point approach so the story could start.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, it feels like you're getting ganged up on, doesn't it? Laughing

The problem with your idea is that it just seems so unlikely, and thus, it takes away from the credibility of your story. The re-emergence of the Soviet Union in your universe essentially depends on a perfect storm of events falling one after another like dominoes.

Nor does it seem likely that, should the Union rise up once more, it would retain the same characteristics that led to its downfall, considering, especially, the advances in technology.

I do agree with Arthur that it is a flawed idea--look, if I wanted to, I could write a story about rabbits and hamsters getting MJOLNIR armor to fend off the Covenant. But would it be believable as anything other than a comedy? No. While, ultimately, it is your story and thus your universe to tinker with (although, admittedly, this is fanfiction), when the basic idea behind your story strains credibility, it's just hard to take anything else you say seriously.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A modification I'd suggest against the usage of a new Soviet Union is simply expanding on the Koslovics which, from what I can surmise from the official timeline, are a Khmer Rouge-like, military-oriented group of revolutionaries. Since they aim to squish free-market capitalism in the colonies and are at the same time trying to battle a resurgence of national socialism in the Jovian system, communism, under these circumstances, needs to wear a military mantle and I think that's pretty easy to depict.

If you really want to include a Soviet-like state, you could have a more far-leftish offspring of the Russian Federation sponsor the Koslovics along with some of the few states that are still governed under a Maoist or Leninist system: China, North Korea or a Korean Union, assuming the two had united up until 2160, a small coalition consisting of Vietnam and Laos, and an alliance of a few African states that are more or less sympathetic to Marxism, like Angola or Ethiopia. To counteract this, you could also have some nationalist insurrections unfold in places that would likely sponsor such manifestations. The so-called "Unified German Republic" referred to in the timeline would obviously be the first candidate. Another place you could use as the site of a bitter struggle between nationalist and workers' movements would be Mars, since it's almost completely an industrial colony.

A story along those lines wouldn't deviate too much from the premise of the Interplanetary War. Just a suggestion. Wink
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Enth Darkness Triumphant
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UNSC Trooper wrote:
A modification I'd suggest against the usage of a new Soviet Union is simply expanding on the Koslovics which, from what I can surmise from the official timeline, are a Khmer Rouge-like, military-oriented group of revolutionaries. Since they aim to squish free-market capitalism in the colonies and are at the same time trying to battle a resurgence of national socialism in the Jovian system, communism, under these circumstances, needs to wear a military mantle and I think that's pretty easy to depict.

If you really want to include a Soviet-like state, you could have a more far-leftish offspring of the Russian Federation sponsor the Koslovics along with some of the few states that are still governed under a Maoist or Leninist system: China, North Korea or a Korean Union, assuming the two had united up until 2160, a small coalition consisting of Vietnam and Laos, and an alliance of a few African states that are more or less sympathetic to Marxism, like Angola or Ethiopia. To counteract this, you could also have some nationalist insurrections unfold in places that would likely sponsor such manifestations. The so-called "Unified German Republic" referred to in the timeline would obviously be the first candidate. Another place you could use as the site of a bitter struggle between nationalist and workers' movements would be Mars, since it's almost completely an industrial colony.

A story along those lines wouldn't deviate too much from the premise of the Interplanetary War. Just a suggestion. Wink


And that is exactly what I intend to do, but with a twist that will show up in chapter 2.
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