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The Sky's Moon. Part 1

 
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hboff
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject: The Sky's Moon. Part 1 Reply with quote

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The Sky's Moon. Part 1
Posted by Alex Ross (ross_399@ hotmail.com)
21 November 2006, 1:33 am

http://halosn.bungie.org/fanfic/?story=Alex_Ross1121060133191.html
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SYSTEM
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Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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Location: Tango, Oscar, Charlie

PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I smell a Mary-Sue.

Well, we'll cover the content later, but first, I'm gonna give you your welcoming kick in the nuts, and here it is:

I mentioned a mary-sue. There are variations upon this, such as Marty-Stu, Gary-Stu, or just 'sue,' but they all point to the same thing, a self-insertion. In short, a 'Mary-Sue' character reflects his or her writer's fantasies and wishes; in other words, a 'Mary-Sue' is a fantasised version of the person who writes her.

One of the easiest ways to tell a Mary-Sue from a balanced character is if the character shares a lot of habits and traits with you, is in a position normally unavailable to others of his standing, has no personality flaws, is rediculously far above other 'average' characters, and, of course, is named after you, or a pseudonym or pen name you go by. There are other details most sues have in common, but we'll leave those out for now.

Some writers love using sues, others warn against using them; including me. I dislike sues for a number of reasons, namely because sues often tend to flatten storylines and turn fiction into showcases for a characters' awesomeness or just a poorly-disguised mouthpiece for the writer, and second, sues are often ego-boosts. Lastly, sues can not only end up turning stories into showcases for their awesomeness, but can also corrupt a story and turn it into what we call PWP - porn-without-plot. Sounds unfeasible? Check fan fiction.net. Most of the anime-based fanfics are nothing but PWP.

That said, sues aren't all bad. But cheesy? Yes. Overdone? Yes. Stock? Yes. Cliche? Yes. Boring? Hell yes.

- Dave.
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"Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother forty whacks. When she saw what she had done, she gave her father forty-one." - A child's nursery rhyme.

"When in doubt, empty your magazine." - Murphy's first law of combat operations.
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Azathoth
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That having been said, I seriously doubt that this will devolve into PWP. It's awfully hard to write smut about a bunch of people with the catalytic thyroid implant of anti-sex.

I do, indeed, smell a Sue. The main example that struck me was the 'tanned Spartan' thing. You never mentioned if our good friend Alex-102 was wearing MJOLNIR or not, but I'll assume he was (a pair of rabbit punches from an Elite is usually lethal). Whether he had it or not, Spartans don't get much sun.

I'm not really sure when this was set, but I assume this was some time between John becoming the Chief and the events of Halo...this does present a wee bit of a problem, but I hope you can clear that up in future chapters.
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Chuckles
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that basing a character on your gaming persona is fine, just so long as you don't fall into the above-mentioned pitfalls. My character (Chuckles) has appeared in many of my fics, but I seldom make him the strongest or smartest character. Oh, he kicks butt, but he also makes mistakes, learns hard lessons and—more often than not—gets killed.

But there is a difference between basing a character on yourself and basing one on your gaming identity. For example, the character Chuckles (who, by the way, is a Spartan) is incredibly tough. He fights with more brutality than finesse, and can ignore the pain of serious wounds in order to finish a fight. Now that is a lot like my gaming persona (I was pretty good at Halo 1) but nothing at all like myself—an out of shape guy with non-existent fighting skills and a normal tolerance for pain. And while me and my gaming friends get a kick out of the stark differences between the fictional Chuckles and the real Chuckles, they often recognize similarities between his actions in my stories and my tendencies during a game.

So, in short, it's fine to base a character on yourself, but a bad idea to make him anything near infallible. Let some of your personality (gaming and otherwise) add realism and flavor, but make sure that you have other characters in your story who can take him to school in one way or another. He should have obvious flaws, and those flaws should impact your plot.

Killing him off wouldn't be a bad idea either Wink

Seeing as I went and posted such a wordy opinion on your thread, I will do you the courtesy of reviewing this chapter sometime this weekend.

C.T. Clown
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SYSTEM
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Azathoth wrote:
That having been said, I seriously doubt that this will devolve into PWP. It's awfully hard to write smut about a bunch of people with the catalytic thyroid implant of anti-sex.


Heh, well, it's happened here before, Az. Not often, yeah, you're right, but it's happened.


Alright, Alex. Give this a shot.

http://www.onlyfiction.net/marysue2.html


If you need help on dealing with sues, gimme a shout, we'll talk.

- Dave.
_________________
"Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother forty whacks. When she saw what she had done, she gave her father forty-one." - A child's nursery rhyme.

"When in doubt, empty your magazine." - Murphy's first law of combat operations.
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fallschirmjager
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn I got 39 for the head character in LTG....
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SYSTEM
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to self-insert in a lot of ways.

A) The plot. I tend to write plots that center around things I find important.

B) Symbolism. I tend to put a few symbols that reflect upon my life or upon myself.

C) Faces. Some characters represent different sides of myself. One character who might be very shy and withdrawn, but nimble and intelligent might represent one side of me, and his or her polar opposite would be outgoing and friendly, but brash, make decisions based on emotion and show a general lack of maturity and represent another side. Carl Jung would talk about the 'inner and outer' selves making up the 'total' self. Sigmund Freud said that we have an 'id' and 'ego' that will make up our total self. Split yourself up.


A Mary-Sue character, also called an 'avatar' is the easiest and most basic way to self-insert. But those reasons have also made it one of the most cliche ways.

And about killing off an avatar... well, go ahead, but if your avatar dies in the arms of his beloved, well, consider that a cliche as well.


Think of it this way. The trick to making great characters is simple: imperfection. You know about Napoleon Dynamite? Most hilarious guy ever. He never really got along well, was a little socially inept, and said the most hilarious things, but that was what made him special.

- Dave.
_________________
"Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother forty whacks. When she saw what she had done, she gave her father forty-one." - A child's nursery rhyme.

"When in doubt, empty your magazine." - Murphy's first law of combat operations.
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fallschirmjager
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Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 262
Location: The girls bathroom.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Luck wrote:
I tend to self-insert in a lot of ways.

A) The plot. I tend to write plots that center around things I find important.

B) Symbolism. I tend to put a few symbols that reflect upon my life or upon myself.

C) Faces. Some characters represent different sides of myself. One character who might be very shy and withdrawn, but nimble and intelligent might represent one side of me, and his or her polar opposite would be outgoing and friendly, but brash, make decisions based on emotion and show a general lack of maturity and represent another side. Carl Jung would talk about the 'inner and outer' selves making up the 'total' self. Sigmund Freud said that we have an 'id' and 'ego' that will make up our total self. Split yourself up.


A Mary-Sue character, also called an 'avatar' is the easiest and most basic way to self-insert. But those reasons have also made it one of the most cliche ways.

And about killing off an avatar... well, go ahead, but if your avatar dies in the arms of his beloved, well, consider that a cliche as well.


Think of it this way. The trick to making great characters is simple: imperfection. You know about Napoleon Dynamite? Most hilarious guy ever. He never really got along well, was a little socially inept, and said the most hilarious things, but that was what made him special.

- Dave.


Well I do not see myself as perfect, I should try to incorporate a lot more personal depth into my story but the whole dieing in the arms thing was never going to happen.

But I'd like it if you'd read over some of my story sometime Dave to tell me what you think.
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