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Titans (Part 4)

 
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hboff
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:49 pm    Post subject: Titans (Part 4) Reply with quote

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Titans (Part 4)
Posted by Mr Bill Jr V (mr_bill_jr_5@hotmail.com)
21 October 2004, 3:59 PM

http://halosn.bungie.org/fanfic/?story=mr_bill_jr_v.1021041559044.html
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Berconius
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:07 pm    Post subject: *blink* Reply with quote

Whoa, he's back.

I was wondering when Damius would show up... interesting thing to do with the fellow.

Nice. Though I found typos abound throughout the piece, that's inconsequential.

The formatting was pretty crowded but that's also of little import in comparison to content.

Definitely a nice touch on fleet battles. I love the fact that you chucked the damn MACs; they never made much sense to me anyway. A giant rail gun like a MAC would probably beat up the firing mechanism pretty bad if their rounds had much mass, anyway.

Superb grasp of spaceborne fleet combat; I think you're the first author to actually think about the physics of firing and accelerate the ship before firing so that the ship doesn't get kicked backward and eat its engine exhaust or something.

I'm surprised that you didn't mention anything about interceptor craft and the like, but I guess the escort corvettes and such are probably more reaslistic.

I'm unclear on whether you were right about the effect of nukes in space. The destructive nature of nukes in an atmosphere is in no small part due to the shockwave, and those wouldn't occur in space. It would easily be a ship killer if it made contact with the hull and exploded into the central mass, but it seems unlikely that a nuke would do much more than irradiate unshielded ships. Like I said though, I'm not clear on this.

Hopefully, you'll get around to reading this. Nice overall job per usual.

Oh, and is Zenith still standing? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.
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SYSTEM
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:10 am    Post subject: Re: *blink* Reply with quote

Berconius wrote:
...I think you're the first author to actually think about the physics...


Geez, the first Author to go Technical! Newton's third law has been taken into account!

Okay Beronicus, I'll explain one more aspect.

About the shockwave - Just remember - the Photons created by the nuclear detonation - depending on the intesnity of the nuke, could in theory, generate enough force outward to cause this.

Now, if I can remember my physics correctly....

When a Hydrogen Bomb explodes, it sends out a wave of photons so dense they meet the density of a concrete wall at least a meter thick moving at lightspeed. Remember that all energy can manifest itself in certain forms at certain intensities. Heat will become light at a certain intensity. Light will become physical at certain intensities.

Also, the radiation caused by the detonation of the hydrogen bomb does not need an atmosphere. The radiation, which is above the visible-light spectrum, could literally cook the ship. Although much of the energy would be reflected off the ship, and also radiated in the infra-red frequency, the ship would probably melt if it wasn't torn apart by the photons. An ordinary house within one kilometer of a modern (20th century) nuclear explosion (hydrogen bomb) would be torn to pieces within ten microseconds. It's kinda like a microwave, but imagine a microwave that is MUCH bigger and uses radiation instead of low-freq microwaves. Remember, Radiation is the way the sun's rays reach Earth. Heat leaves Earth in the form of Infra-Red light.

And remember, an Infra-red light is quite harmless - shine one on yourself, and you will feel all nice and warm.

An ultraviolet light is dangerous - the kind you find in tanning salons - they can cause skin cancer.



Does that clarify things a bit about nukes? (Or at least the electromagnetic spectrum - left, low-freq, AM frequency, Right, High-freqency, Gamma ray. Just don't forget that gamma rays are only created by nuclear explosions.)


- Dave.
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Nick Kang
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dman Dave...if I didn't know better, I'd have to say you were smart! Razz


The story was pretty good...a lot of spelling errors like Berconius pointed out.
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Berconius
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dave, but I actually already knew most of that. I AM in AP Physics C here, and have taken courses in Astrophysics.

The thing that I'm sketchy about concerning nukes is that yes, photons in enugh intensity could cause matter to move, it's the solar wind. The problem with that is that even the solar wind from the SUN is quite weak, and a nuke would not generate so much as a tiny fraction of that. Therefore, I am very not sure about how photons would have the effect of a concrete wall moving at 100PSL. Phtons are massless, after all.

Heat becomes light because that's what it does...black body radiation, etc. I do think you're right about melting the ship, though. That would be possible from the sheer amount of energy released.

I never said that a nuclear bomb needs to be an atomsphere to detonate or emit radiation, I'm saying that without being immersed in matter, there is nothing to propagate the shockwave. Without the shockwave, the house a kilometer away will likely be cooked and melted, but it shouldn't get torn apart since photons don't carry enough momentum for that.

If for some reason, there was a NEUTRINO wave like a supernova, it might be able to tear ships apart. But these are nuclear explosions on the scale of a main sequence star's that we're working with. Probably small ones at that. Besides, neutrinos are only effective from sheer number and close proximity. A nuke could probably never produce enough of them to be effective.

By Radiation, yes, I was referring to X-rays and gamma rays, though I'm not sure a man made nuke would have enough yield to make gamma rays. We really only get that from a supernova and I doubt that even the Halo universe has tech high enough to artificially produce that.

A microwave operates with some STRANGE device that I can't even recall the name of. You don't need higher power Electromagnetic emmisions to cook a ship if you can turn the space around them into a literal microwave and continuously bombard them with that.

Heat leaves Earth in the form of infrared, yes. But it's more likely to leave Earth in longer wavelengths since that will be less likely to get absorbed by our atmosphere.

Yes, light becomes matter at high enough energy. It's why E=mc^2 exists. The problem with that is that photons from a manmade nuke (I'm guessing no more than 900 gigatons here) would not produce enough energy to make a difference should he light manifest as matter as well since the particles, if any, would be so few and far between that the momentum the carry would be negligible. Your note of theoretical possibilty is true, but the clause of "depending on the intensity of the nuke" makes it not possible. Even that far in the future, I don't think we can make one that releases the energy found in supernovas. THAT would be plenty to make the Covenant turn tail at every fleet engagement provided that we don't kill ourselves setting the bomb off.

And even a supernova's destructionness in the local reagion is in part due to its shockwave. Due in LARGE part, actually. The outer layer that's blown iff is what can strip the atomsphere off a planet, not the light that it emits.

Check your physics on that, and I'll check mine. I'm very sure that light wouldn't have enough momentum to make a shockwave, though. I'd like to see some equations and figures on this since it may affect the way I write my fics.
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MC's Cousin
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woo! It's Physics all over again!

Well, while most of the n00bs that will see those posts will have to grab an Asprin, it's nice to know that some people actually give a care to know this stuff.

Berconius wrote:
Definitely a nice touch on fleet battles. I love the fact that you chucked the damn MACs; they never made much sense to me anyway. A giant rail gun like a MAC would probably beat up the firing mechanism pretty bad if their rounds had much mass, anyway.

MACs don't have firing mechanisms that move. Not really. They use electromagnetic coils to propel the projectile away. If you didn't get that already.
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mr bill
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry about the spelling errors- By the end of this thing I was really hacking away at huge chunks of text rather then doing little details... my apologies.

As for the code-- I'm just repeating the manner in which it's always been coded... seems to work for me.
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mr bill
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking I'm going back to something smaller- it was really a challange to do this huge fleet battle thing and not go crazy, but having done it now, I can safetly say I'll never do it again on this scale.
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Berconius
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To MCC, you don't need moving parts to beat up a firing mechanism. When that round acelerates out of the tube, it WILL have to exert an equal and opposite impulse in to the ship, possibly knocking things out of alignment or out the back of the ship all together.

Metal isn't a muscle, so it may not be able to hold up to repeated firings very well. Even if they mounted the whole thing on hydraulics, they would straian the hydraulics and possibly spring a leak.

This is disastrous in a prolonged space standoff, as it means that the ship may be one of the survivors but might blow itself up trying to fire off a round. Especially the triple shot cannon that the Autumn was mounted with. A triple blast of that level of kinetic energy would probably knock something out of alignment since even magnetically levitating the round in the tube will not keep it from shifting from its own inertia while the ship is manuevering.

Gah, I'm such a dork...

ANYWAY. I can't argue with Mr. Bill on not touching this size of a battle again. I would most certainly NOT like to write it out to such an extent and then realize that I missed where a ship was or where some escort went. Good job with what you did, though.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're not a dork, just a geek; which I am also. I hear you. For a second though, I thought you ment an actual firing mechanism, not the barrel and other associated parts. I consider a firing mechanism to be like a bolt and that stuff.
I understand what you said though. In the books, if you remember, the whole ship shuddered under the release of such a massive projectile. Also, since a MAC round would have to go through a barrel, think of the friction that thing would cause.
Either way, I do think you point was valid, but hey, we're in the future, so they have new stuff that helps out. Not totally aleviating the problem, but helping out.
Whoo! I love this kind of stuff!
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Berconius
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes physics is a religion with a vast vast following...

Actually, I fall under categories for dork, geek and nerd! *cheer* juts happened to mention the wrong one.
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