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Master Chief's Hymn

 
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hboff
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:56 pm    Post subject: Master Chief's Hymn Reply with quote

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Master Chief's Hymn
Posted by Nick Kang (nick_kang1337@yahoo.com)
11 July 2006, 5:14 am

http://halosn.bungie.org/fanfic/?story=Nick_Kang0711060514161.html
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Spartan006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good job, Kang. It really brings out another side of the Chief. 8/10
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Azathoth
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice. A little evil song that you can practically hear the Chief singing in his head. Meter was pretty good, content was awesome, rhyme was good too. I give high marks.
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Nick Kang
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aw man, you have no idea how good it felt to be filling out a submission form again. Very Happy

Thanks for the comments guys, I appreciate coming back to a warm welcome.
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russ687
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to see you post, Nick.

I am no poetry expert, but I do have a few thoughts about this piece. I really liked how two of the stanzas rhymed, made it very enjoyable to read. However, in spite of the nice rhyming, I thought the flow in the beginning half was a bit off. Like here:

You wrote:
Sapped like every victim's breath,
Just fear and dark and dreary death.


Althought they rhymed, they didn't flow together. I know that that element is not necessary for a good poem, but it really elevates the story to get them to flow together. For instance, adding this one word would have perfected it.

Quote:
Sapped like every victim's dying breath,
Just fear and dark and dreary death.


Do you see the flow sync up?

Anyways, overall this was good. I especially loved the ending, where everything seemed to fit together seamlessly. I look forward to your next.

-R
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vector40
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds wrong because he's got seven syllables in the first line and eight in the second.

Your change would make nine in the first, leaving it equally off.

Removing the "Just" from the second would fix the meter and let the staccato feet flow through.
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russ687
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said, I am no expert here, but I don't think you match up lines according to the syllables. You can, sure, but I don't think that will guarantee the flow will sync up. I mean, just read the two, and find that rhythm that makes it all flow nicely. Also, I think removing "Just" would have changed what Nick wanted it to mean.

-R
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vector40
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might help if you clarified what you mean by "flow." As it is I can only strongly disagree with you -- which is part of the subjective nature of poetry, of course, but if you want to meaningfully explain a reading, it's pretty key to use words that signify something definite.
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Nick Kang
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The flow thing was intended. It flows right to me, I guess it just depends on how you read it.

Thanks, guys.
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russ687
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it could go any of three ways, and probably more. Though what I meant by flow was the tempo that you read the lines at, and how each corresponding line (the first and following rhyming stanza) matched up. The syllables idea is what addresses that, but I don't think it could have worked here. However, some of this depends on how you read the lines, because if you stress one syllable too long (or not at all), then it would throw the rest off (or, conversely, cause them to line up).

For instance, you could be reading it one of two ways.
Quote:
Sap'd like ev'ry victim's breath

or

Sap'ped liked ev'ery victim's breath


If you really ununciate the words, then it could change it all. But, this is all really opinion, so there's no way I could really prove or disprove one method over another.

Anyways, keep writing Nick. Don't wait too long to post again.

-R
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Mark25
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was a good poem, can't see what all the fussing is over. The only stanza I didn't like was the introspective one:

I did not choose to lead this life,
Why has it come unto me?
Pain and death are all there is,
An endless pit of misery.

Why does it seem that everyone goes that route? I did not choose to lead this life seems a touch of a misnomer: didn't choose it? Don't do it! If it is thrust upon you sure but c'mon man. Oy, oy, oy, the burden of greatness is heavy but wear it like you were fit for it. Not like, 'I don't want to do this.'

Around me lay the fallen dead,
Their empty eyes so full of yearn,
Their blood is spilled; their flesh is cut,
Through bullet holes and plasma burns.

Words just won't do that justice, sorry mate, I'd love to be singing your praises for what is an eloquent, poignant and downright beautiful stanza but it's left me at a loss for words; I hate you. (Yeah I know it didn't rythme properly but who's that bothered!)

Just fear; dark and dreary death.

Just fear, dark and dreary death.

Figured seeing as you three are discussing personal semantics I'd throw my hat in too.

Quote:
It might help if you clarified what you mean by "flow." As it is I can only strongly disagree with you -- which is part of the subjective nature of poetry, of course, but if you want to meaningfully explain a reading, it's pretty key to use words that signify something definite.


Couldn't agree with you more.

Quote:
The flow thing was intended. It flows right to me, I guess it just depends on how you read it.


Ditto.

Quote:
If you really enunciate the words, then it could change it all. But, this is all really opinion, so there's no way I could really prove or disprove one method over another.


Agreed... although:

Quote:
Sap'ped liked ev'ery victim's breath


Sap'ped?! Which period in history did you elope from Russ? Do they say vic'itim where you're from too (only joking mate).

A point of a good reading can be that it sometimes clarifies the piece for others, not confuses them. I must have come across dozens of works in Hboff where people have said things like the flow was off without going into detail about what they actually mean. The syllable didactic is one way of measuring a poem just as finding meaning in it is another. I don't think all of us here are too stressed over wether or not a piece should have the syllables match anymore than there is meaning to it. None of us are paid for our expertise here, we're just a small community focused on one particular idea. Every person goes into a piece thread with their own take on what is proper and what is not, some want to share how they felt about the piece, others may want to help, many may want to criticise. Put me down for all three.

Having just taken a look at your last submission, I'd say that is a long time. Any particular reason for having such a large hiatus Mr Kang? (I'm trying too hard to be funny now, I can tell)

Til again.
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russ687
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't want to perpetuate a subjective discussion, but I think you guys brought up a good point that might help others who think the same thing.

vector40 wrote:
It might help if you clarified what you mean by "flow." As it is I can only strongly disagree with you -- which is part of the subjective nature of poetry, of course, but if you want to meaningfully explain a reading, it's pretty key to use words that signify something definite.


Many of us throw the word "flow" around a lot, and like you guys pointed out, never really elaborate on it. This is partly because we incorrectly assume that we refer to the same thing when we say "flow." So, just to clarify, flow in a tranditional story sense (not a poem) refers to how the words in a sentence, and the surrounding sentences, fit together with grammer and punctuation in mind. So, when we say the "flow was off," it's in reference to the word order, word choice, overall sentence construction, and inter-sentence (intra-paragraph) conjunction.

When we move over to poetry, that same definition of flow might not hold up too well, mostly because stanzas cannot be treated like sentences. So, unless someone knows of a good, official resource that addresses exactly what flow is considered in poems, it should be defined by the user of the term. By my thoughts, flow in poems can be...
russ687 wrote:
Though what I meant by flow was the tempo that you read the lines at, and how each corresponding line (the first and following rhyming stanza) matched up.


To elaborate a bit on this, the flow is the cadence (rhythm) of the initial line of the stanza (we all know what a stanza is, right?) and its mating with the second line of the stanza (this is assuming we are talking about a couplet, not a tercet or anything above; that could change things). So, if you were to have bad flow, it would be the couplet stanza either 1) having different initial and ending lines that do not "harmonize" or 2) the couplet stanza does not fit the profile of the surrounding stanzas.

I hope that clears that up a bit. Again, I reiterate that how you determine the harmonization of the lines, or the combination of stanzas, is completely up to the reader (similiar to how a sentence could make sense in one mind and not another). I'd be happy to delve into this more with anyone (on a topic in the Writer's Guild or something, not here), but for all real purposes, each of us all just offering our own opinions.

Sorry, Nick, if this sort of dicussion is unwelcome.

-Russ
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Marine Corps 117
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I absolutely appreciate pieces that relate to Mr. 117's loss of his team. It is hardly acknowledged and is just so ripe for characterization purposes. Bravo. Smile

Expect a representation of this semi-rant on Friday. Razz
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Johny117
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent. I think I'll grow to fear that hymn.
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CoLd BlooDed
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome work, Kang, can't say much more.
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