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The Enemy Within-Chapter Twenty: The Two Confrontations
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hboff
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:55 pm    Post subject: The Enemy Within-Chapter Twenty: The Two Confrontations Reply with quote

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The Enemy Within-Chapter Twenty: The Two Confrontations
Posted by Mind_Affecting_Parasite
9 March 2005, 12:17 AM

http://halosn.bungie.org/fanfic/?story=mind_affecti.03090500171220.html
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Caleb the Jackal
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well one thing that I noticed was... Wait no... Ummm.... OK well this was a very good chapter. But can you explain the ranks of the Ship Master compared to the Black Spec Ops guy. I mean I liked them both but would he really have the rank to challenge a shipmaster? Just wondering. I felt a lot of suspense while reading this.

Keep em commin.

Caleb
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russ687
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very well written. Good job.

It flowed nicely, and the Elite who was contemplating whether or not to kill the humans was written nicely.

Though I felt a little displeased with the situation between the Black Field Commander and the Ship Master. Not that it wasn't written well, but rather the seeming outcome out the challenge of power proved a little in the favor of the Field Master, which seemed odd. I've always invisioned Ship Masters being much higher ranking then a simple Field Master, and in addition to that, very formidable in both terms of intellect and warfare. For someone to challenge his authority would be something closer to stupidity rather then courage or duty.

Like you wrote yourself in the story, Gold Elites are not appointed for no reason, and are very serious and cunning soldiers. They are not only very powerful, but hold much more authority over a Field Master (even if he is Spec Ops). Just the way I feel, your Gold Elite should have commendable power over all subordinates (this would also include, say, pure allegiance from those who were on normal security duty prior to the arrival of the Spec Ops Squads).

Bascially, Gold Elites are not push arounds. And in the situation you presented, I would never bet that a Field Master could win a fight or centest of power for authority. Keep it in mind.

Otherwise, excellent writing. I'm loving this series, and each chapter is superb. Keep up the great work.

-Russ
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Caleb the Jackal
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also felt that. It takes alot more skill to pilot a warship and have all of your subordinates follow your commands. I think that a Field master is a high rank but I do not even think it to be close to that of a Shipmaster.

There would be at least a few ranks between the two. First of all apprentice shipmaster. Then our equivalent to a Commander. Finally the Shipmaster (Captain.) Basically it would be like Major Silva Openely challenging Captain Keyes to his face. It takes an large amount of responsibility to be a Field Master but it takes an enormous amount to be a Shipmaster.
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Mind_Affecting_Parasite
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew it! I just knew that that particular thing would get noticed. Let me try and explain this. (Even the friends I let edit this thought it was off - I'm just stubborn and posted anyway!)


Those two concepts (Balinee and his inner conflict, and Agasee's conflict with Reigando) were hard in the making. I was really temped to change my storyline and not include them. But I wanted to bring out some signes of Elite rebellion in this - or at least a little caring with the whole "siding with the humans" and all.

I'll give some description of Black Field Master 'Agasee:
No, his rank is not that of a ship master. Though, on the ground, at least, he does hold as much power and prestige. But the point of a Ship Master being more powerful and in control is also valid.
The conflict has more to do with his personality than his rank. It also has to do with inner conflict.
Agasee is not yet old, though his is, obviously, one helluva soldier. What is important in this case is that he is overly ambitious. He wants power, and he likes to be able and point out flaws in those above him. It makes his feel like a bigger Elite.
As you did point out russ687 it was a rather stupid thing to do. I tried to make the ending seem like it could go either way - what with Reigando with his sword out and all. If it came to a physical thing, the Ship Master would easily win. But I tried to include some breaking down of the mind in Reigando.
Agasee is counting on having been able to get down the Ship Master's pride and stuff down to where he will not fight. As we can see, he was a tad wrong in his assumption. But I did try to make it like Agasee was still not scared. I gave it more from the Ship Master's thoughts. In reality, Agasee is frightened, but at this point dedicated to standing his ground.
Why Reigando is not in upmost power in the situation is because he knows his suboridnate is right - and that just makes him feel aweful. Someone with less experience is correct in a matter he should be in control of. I guess I didn't get that across.
Part of it is that I like Blackies just as much as Ship Masters. I just like to make them sound bad-A.

I'm not sorry I put it in, I just wish I would have been able to convey my thoughts more clearly in my writing. That's something I need to work on, I see. I was hoping that the emotions displayed by each one would make it more believable.
Just, if you feel like looking over this series, look at Squad Master Lshowee (I think) that is below the ship. Just picture 'Agasee with a similar attitude towards things.

Having said that, does it make more sense? I'd hate to think I posted something totally rediculous.

Any other suggestions on that particular subject (or any other)? I want to hear them.

I don't want to give away any endings, but I will say that this confrontation does not come to anything physical - at least between the two big daddies.

(By the way, how did that first Elite's conflict come across?)




Well I actually have more to say.

Just another one of my questions:
How many are in a full squad - 10 or 12? I was thinking twelve, but am not sure.



Thanks for all the... advice, or suggestions, or just talk. It all helps me out. Actually I am kind of glad to have written something that caused people to suggest something different. Maybe I shouldn't want that, but I don't get as much quality comment material as I would like from people.
Thanks again.
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Dare
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember discussing with you slightly the controversy of pitting a Field Master against a Ship Master. It shows a sign of insubordination not customary to the higher-ranking covenant.

I also flinched at your Elites' hesitation to kill the humans. I could understand an elite reasoning with himself if the human forces were larger in number, but not with such inferior forces. A true non-heretic elite would have removed the new threat immediately to avoid showing signs of weakness to his squad.

In this chapter, your portrayal of the covenant is that of softies. They're not the grade-A badass covenant that I'm used to. Talk to me later for some more tips.
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MC's Cousin
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll agree with most of that. From what we have seen, Elites stick to the chain-of-command pretty tightly. Having one step out from that and directly challenge a superior - and a Ship Master at that - does seem a little out-of-whack.
I suppose it could have been done better. So just be conscious of that kind of thing. Sure it is okay to deviate a bit from things, but not to change them completely.

As for the Elite at the beginning, well, I thought that was okay. The chain of thoughts seemed logical. Though I will agree with Dare (welcome to HBOFF, by the way) that it did make him seem initially soft - almost. I was able to reconsile it because they were both stunned, but only by a hair.

For the both of them, I found it believable, but not as likely as it made it look. Just make sure to keep those Covies in character. I know you can do it - you've stuck with them well in the past.


As for the rest of the story; there were some minor things here and there. A fee places where the flow could have been slightly better, or where the detail level could have been upped to more fully encompass things. Just gradually add more in there. I don't want you to dump in all sorts of new ingredients and screw it up. But do listen to the advice you are given.



Overall, this was good quality stuff; but that piece of contriversy just pulled down the chapter. Making us wonder of those kinds of elements can be good at some times, but not like this. Keep up the good work. And good luck.
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Mark Lieberg
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Mind_Affecting_Parasite
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks MCC and Dare. And Mark (nice comment, by the way Very Happy ).

I was thinking hard over this all last night and finally came up with something. You'll have to read the next story to see what it is, but I believe I came up with a way to make Reigando more believable as Ship Master - have him show his true self per say. (I did end with the direct confrontational statement, not with who won, you know.)
Same goes with the first Elite - to a lesser degree.
Hopefully it will be a lot better Elite-personality-wise that this one.

Thanks again.
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Dare
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday I was unable to finish my comment due to circumstances beyond my control.

After re-reading your story, I was able to acknowledge some of your explanations for 'Agasee's rebellion, and realize that while still softer than in your other stories, your Elites are no pansies. Sorry if it sounded like I disliked your story yesterday, because that is not the case.

From what you told me today, I am very interested in reading the next chapter.
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Mendez
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mind_Affecting_Parasite,

In the past few days a friend of mine put me onto this site and told me a few of the authors to look for. After three days of reading I have gone through your entire, "The Enemy Within" series.

It was quite good actually but there were a few things that I noticed as I read it overall. However these are things that would be easily missed if you read/wrote this one chapter at a time as you did.

The first thing that really stood out to me was the way that you split up combat and storyline. Combat can make or break a story and as a single chapter your combat is fine. But as I read this as a series I felt that the flow was extremely off. I felt as if I was reading plot, and then you stopped everything for a whole chapter to give the reader some action.

There is a remedy and an author like you, who obviously knows how to write, shouldn't have any problem fixing this in the future. I have been reading a series called "Ghosts of Erebus." In that series the Author has balance and perfect flow. I read up to his most recent chapter and it read perfectly. I felt like I was there and the events were really happening. What I am trying to say is that you do not have to halt your plot and storyline just to add a little action. Let the action supplement your chapter.

If you choose to have no action and just plot that is perfectly alright too. Just don't feel obligated to have a chapter of action and a chapter of plot right after another. Mix that throughout each chapter.

Overall this series was great, but it would be much better reading as individual chapters. Just watch for that in the future and keep up the good work.

Mendez
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Mind_Affecting_Parasite
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. I never thought this would get brough back up again. And I didn't think I was being recommended. Life - its surprising.


Thanks for the imput Mendez. I appreciate it. I'll admit that I did write these one at a time. When I started this series, I hadn't really thought it all the way out yet. It was just something I did for fun on the side. So with each new chapter, I come up with something new, and introduce different things that pop into my mind.
More recently, because I have been really mulling over my other series, I have put a lot more thought into this one. I hope that because of this, I will be able to continue through with the story line and not have any of these "flow glitches."

I may have to read back through my own stuff to see what you mean, since it has been a while since I wrote them, but I'm not entirely sure I know what you mean about the flow. Don't get me wrong, I will keep an eye out for it and remember that when writing, though.
Still I use combat to advance the plot. My characters couldn't have gotten where they are now without going through some fighting first. And it is intermittent. This is so the reader does not get overcome by action, and because of the unique environment.


I will agree that a story does not need action. I have heard that time and time again.


I've got to go now, though. School time. Thanks for the imput, though. It means a lot.
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Mendez
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem, glad to be of service.

Mendez
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Mind_Affecting_Parasite
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wondering Mendez... but who recommended you here? And why did they recommend me? I just am curious about such things.

Also, you said you read my whole series. I have a question then: How hard was it to remember the different characters through it all? I thought myself that it might be a tad confusing looking back. I just would like outside imput.

Thanks again. I plan to start working on the next chapter tonight or tomorrow. G'day.
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Mendez
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well my friend would like to remain an unknown, but I don't mind telling where I live or any of that waffle so I am going to have to leave your first question unanswered. But I can answer the second question.

I often write Fan Fiction and let my friends have a read. Well recently I have gotten into Halo. (In the last year or so...) And so I started writing some Halo fan fiction. While my unnamed friend was reading one of my stories he told me that I should come here and post it. He also said that if I wanted to get to know more of what the Covenant and Spartans will do, or about the weapons of Halo then you can read some of the other fiction there.

Basically he said to look for JillyBeans, Mind_Affecting_Parasite, Dave Luck, Chuckles, and Russ687(don't know if that number is right...).

So they weren't just like... "Hey go to Halo.bungie.org and read Mind_affecting_Parasite !" You were just one of the authors mentioned.

Oh and I had to look back into the story just to make sure who was who. There were two Elites that I kept getting confused about. But it is almost like any book. It was the same way when I read Clancy's Rainbow Six.

But anyway, Keep up the good work.

Mendez
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